• bad news for hdd?

    From Ogg@VERT/CAPCITY2 to All on Fri Dec 30 22:43:00 2022
    Is this bad news for my hdd?

    https://susepaste.org/90068115

    That is the result on my T60 currently operating XP, and I luv
    it.

    I have been contemplating upgrading to SSD and at least 500GB
    to 1TB.



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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Ogg on Sat Dec 31 06:51:24 2022
    Re: bad news for hdd?
    By: Ogg to All on Fri Dec 30 2022 10:43 pm

    Is this bad news for my hdd?

    https://susepaste.org/90068115

    Unless you are doing something really critical with that drive, I would keep running it until you got an actual error :-)

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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Arelor on Sat Dec 31 08:48:01 2022
    Re: bad news for hdd?
    By: Arelor to Ogg on Sat Dec 31 2022 06:51 am

    Re: bad news for hdd?
    By: Ogg to All on Fri Dec 30 2022 10:43 pm

    Is this bad news for my hdd?

    https://susepaste.org/90068115

    Unless you are doing something really critical with that drive, I would keep running it until you got an actual error :-)

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    well i think current pending sector count means it's becoming unstable.
    i have some drives that are comparable to his age and they're doing
    quite fine. i have white lable drives which I believe are hitachi. if i have problems there's a pretty good warranty on them and i send them back.

    his drive is very small and it SHOULD last forever, thought. but that sector warning is no bueno. if i were him i'd get some cheap larger alternative.
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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to MRO on Sat Dec 31 17:26:20 2022
    Re: bad news for hdd?
    By: MRO to Arelor on Sat Dec 31 2022 08:48 am

    Re: bad news for hdd?
    By: Arelor to Ogg on Sat Dec 31 2022 06:51 am

    Re: bad news for hdd?
    By: Ogg to All on Fri Dec 30 2022 10:43 pm

    Is this bad news for my hdd?

    https://susepaste.org/90068115

    Unless you are doing something really critical with that drive, I would k running it until you got an actual error :-)

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    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

    well i think current pending sector count means it's becoming unstable.
    i have some drives that are comparable to his age and they're doing
    quite fine. i have white lable drives which I believe are hitachi. if i hav

    his drive is very small and it SHOULD last forever, thought. but that sector ---
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    I have had larger drives work for about a year with errors like that. It is a definitive sign the drive is having its sunset, but it does necessarily mean it is going to crash tomorrow.

    I personally prefer to squeeze some extra time from a drive that is gonna die than switch it earler, probbaly because I have multiple backups and I can deal with a drive crashing :-)

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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Arelor on Sat Dec 31 22:12:02 2022
    Re: bad news for hdd?
    By: Arelor to MRO on Sat Dec 31 2022 05:26 pm

    I have had larger drives work for about a year with errors like that. It is a definitive sign the drive is having its sunset, but it does necessarily mean it is going to crash tomorrow.

    I personally prefer to squeeze some extra time from a drive that is gonna die than switch it earler, probbaly because I have multiple backups and I can deal with a drive crashing :-)

    yeah but that is a baby one. and he could get a 4tb pretty cheap now.
    why put off to tomorrow what you can do today.
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  • From Ogg@VERT/CAPCITY2 to Arelor on Sat Dec 31 22:04:00 2022
    Unless you are doing something really critical with that drive, I would keep running it until you got an actual error :-)

    But "Current Pending Sector Count" seems to be critical:

    "Current Pending Sector Count is a critical S.M.A.R.T. (Self-
    Monitoring Analysis and Reporting Technology) indication. The
    respective parameter shows the number of unstable sectors on
    the disk drive that are yet to be remapped or reallocated. In
    simple words, this parameter indicates the number of bad
    sectors on your storage drive. If you see this parameter the
    first thing you should be doing is backup your important data
    or recover your valuable data.

    "Warning: Once you see this parameter popping up in any
    benchmark software, keep your storage drive activity to a
    minimum. Additionally, if this parameter is with respect to
    primary storage drive (the storage with the operating system
    installed) immediately backup your entire drive using backup
    utility or change the primary storage drive for good.

    Not sure why the 200 in max and 200 in current are the same.
    Coincidence? I never really paid attention to SMART reports
    and I didn't have the program that reports that early in my
    ownership of the laptop.

    Anyway.. this the unstable sectors are the culprits that
    contribute to XP failing to do a graceful Shutdown or Restart -
    it just stalls.


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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Ogg on Sun Jan 1 06:43:29 2023
    Re: bad news for hdd?
    By: Ogg to Arelor on Sat Dec 31 2022 10:04 pm

    Not sure why the 200 in max and 200 in current are the same.
    Coincidence? I never really paid attention to SMART reports
    and I didn't have the program that reports that early in my
    ownership of the laptop.

    Anyway.. this the unstable sectors are the culprits that
    contribute to XP failing to do a graceful Shutdown or Restart -
    it just stalls.

    if this is an older laptop then certainly, replace it with an SSD.
    it will be a lot faster.

    just be careful. i accidentially damaged a ribon for my touch pad and i just use a mini mouse for it now. I was being heavy handed with my laptop because i never use it anyways.
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  • From Ogg@VERT/CAPCITY2 to MRO on Sun Jan 1 06:20:00 2023
    Hello MRO!

    ** On Saturday 31.12.22 - 22:12, MRO wrote to Arelor:

    I personally prefer to squeeze some extra time from a drive that is gonna
    die than switch it earler, probbaly because I have multiple backups and I
    can deal with a drive crashing :-)

    yeah but that is a baby one. and he could get a 4tb pretty cheap now.
    why put off to tomorrow what you can do today.

    I think 4TB would be overkill. Even 2TB would be an extreme in
    my case. But a jump from 240GB to 1TB would be quite
    sufficient for my T60, and that would cost between $60-$100.

    I replaced the CPU fan on the T60 about year ago, and that has
    brought back new life to the machine (literally, 'cuz it
    wouldn't boot unless the fan was operational!). I did procure a
    pre-owned Win7/64 T540p (equipped with a 1TB SSD) as a planned
    replacement for the T60, but I really like the T60 keyboard -
    except that a new issue that has developed is that the "a" key
    is seems to not respond sometimes! :(


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  • From Ogg@VERT/CAPCITY2 to MRO on Sun Jan 1 09:53:00 2023
    Hello MRO!

    ** On Saturday 31.12.22 - 08:48, MRO wrote to Arelor:

    well i think current pending sector count means it's becoming unstable.

    I concur. The "200" number looks ominous.

    his drive is very small and it SHOULD last forever, thought. but that sector warning is no bueno. if i were him i'd get some cheap larger alternative. -+-

    I have contemplated trying a 500GB HDD, but I am enamoured by
    the idea of having a much quiter machine (less fan activity,
    although the T60 fan is a new replacement and runs quite quiet
    already) ..but I also like the idea that an SSD would extend
    the already limited batt power which is 3hrs, if I keep the
    display brightness way down or turn it off after 3 minutes of
    non-use.


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  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to MRO on Sun Jan 1 11:52:00 2023
    MRO wrote to Ogg <=-

    Re: bad news for hdd?
    By: Ogg to Arelor on Sat Dec 31 2022 10:04 pm

    Not sure why the 200 in max and 200 in current are the same.
    Coincidence? I never really paid attention to SMART reports
    and I didn't have the program that reports that early in my
    ownership of the laptop.

    Anyway.. this the unstable sectors are the culprits that
    contribute to XP failing to do a graceful Shutdown or Restart -
    it just stalls.

    if this is an older laptop then certainly, replace it with an
    SSD. it will be a lot faster.

    Doesn't matter if it's an older laptop, or a newer laptop. Replacing a
    HDD with a SSD will make it faster in either case.

    just be careful. i accidentially damaged a ribon for my touch pad
    and i just use a mini mouse for it now. I was being heavy handed
    with my laptop because i never use it anyways.

    Well if you never use it, why did you replace the drive? You obviously
    *DO* use it, or you wouldn't need to use a mini mouse with it.

    Why would you ever be "heavy handed" while working on a laptop, anyway?

    Most of what you write makes very little sense, as you can (probably
    not) see...



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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Ogg on Sun Jan 1 16:23:19 2023
    Re: bad news for hdd?
    By: Ogg to Arelor on Sat Dec 31 2022 10:04 pm

    But "Current Pending Sector Count" seems to be critical:

    The fact the drive has ran out of remappable sectors is bad but not apocaliptic.

    You could run for a good while with that error in the logs and it would take a good while for an unrecoverable read error to hit an actual file in the drive. Make no mistake: an unrecoverable read error WILL hit some file of yours if you use a drive with pending sectors for any respectable length of time. The real question is how much the files in that drive matter to you. If they matter, switch the drive now. If not, take not much of a hurry.


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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Ogg on Sun Jan 1 16:26:06 2023
    Re: bad news for hdd?
    By: Ogg to MRO on Sun Jan 01 2023 09:53 am

    well i think current pending sector count means it's becoming unstable.

    I concur. The "200" number looks ominous.

    That "200" is for internal use. It does not mean you have 200 damaged sectors.

    SMART values usually act like a countdown. They start at a healthy hight number and go lower as errors are logged.


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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Ogg on Sun Jan 1 19:35:57 2023
    Re: bad news for hdd?
    By: Ogg to MRO on Sun Jan 01 2023 06:20 am

    yeah but that is a baby one. and he could get a 4tb pretty cheap now. why put off to tomorrow what you can do today.

    I think 4TB would be overkill. Even 2TB would be an extreme in
    my case. But a jump from 240GB to 1TB would be quite
    sufficient for my T60, and that would cost between $60-$100.


    yeah i said that before i knew it was a laptop.
    you could always get a drobo clone like i have, though.
    i have 2 of these.
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003X26VV4/

    a 500mb or 1tb would be fine.
    if you go with sata you will see a lot of improvements. less waiting for
    menus to load and other annoying things with windows.
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Ogg on Sun Jan 1 19:37:14 2023
    Re: bad news for hdd?
    By: Ogg to MRO on Sun Jan 01 2023 09:53 am

    I have contemplated trying a 500GB HDD, but I am enamoured by
    the idea of having a much quiter machine (less fan activity,
    although the T60 fan is a new replacement and runs quite quiet
    already) ..but I also like the idea that an SSD would extend
    the already limited batt power which is 3hrs, if I keep the
    display brightness way down or turn it off after 3 minutes of
    non-use.

    here's a comparison video someone made for the t60 with ssd

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uzZXXnuve8
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Arelor on Sun Jan 1 19:46:21 2023
    Re: bad news for hdd?
    By: Arelor to Ogg on Sun Jan 01 2023 04:23 pm

    drive. Make no mistake: an unrecoverable read error WILL hit some file of yours if you use a drive with pending sectors for any respectable length of time. The real question is how much the files in that drive matter to you. If they matter, switch the drive now. If not, take not much of a hurry.

    I was an electronics tech for 17 years straight and before then, on and off. Mainly I handled prototypes, RMAS and fixing bad shit from our suppliers.

    I wasn't a tech for desktop computer or laptops, but what i know is computer hardware is weak. you should not allow failing component in your setup. I had a failing display. it caught fire(luckily when i was at home).
    I had a harddrive that was actually smoking. a chip on the board failed and lit up and the smoke was shooting out my back fans.

    If your harddrive screws up, who knows what can happen in such a tight environment like a laptop. maybe it could physically fail and then damage a component next to it. If he can afford to, he should fix it.
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  • From Ogg@VERT/CAPCITY2 to MRO on Mon Jan 2 18:01:00 2023
    Hello MRO!

    you could always get a drobo clone like i have, though.
    i have 2 of these.
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003X26VV4/

    Does it run quiet? How much total storage have you installed?

    A NAS system would be very nice. I've looked into that as well,
    but could not pin down a product that I would be happy with.

    Meanwhile, I plan to order an external 4TB sata hdd system and
    use that to support occassional image backups of my PCs.


    a 500mb or 1tb would be fine.
    if you go with sata you will see a lot of improvements. less waiting for menus to load and other annoying things with windows.

    Yes.. the T60 has SATA, albiet just the 1st gen. But that
    should be still be good enuff for the T60.

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  • From Ogg@VERT/CAPCITY2 to MRO on Mon Jan 2 18:02:00 2023
    Hello MRO!

    ** On Sunday 01.01.23 - 19:37, MRO wrote to Ogg:

    here's a comparison video someone made for the t60 with ssd

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uzZXXnuve8

    That was a good vote of confidence. Thx. I wasn't doubtful
    about the speed and heat improvements. I just wasn't sure about
    how XP and lack of TRIM would work with that OS. But I learned
    that since XP has far less (or no) background activity going
    one, TRIM is not critical. What's critical is to simply avoid
    defrag, and just adjust the active partions to be a bit less
    than the spec size of the drive.

    I ordered a Crucial MX500 1TB drive. It should arrive on
    Friday.



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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Ogg on Mon Jan 2 22:37:37 2023
    Re: bad news for hdd?
    By: Ogg to MRO on Mon Jan 02 2023 06:01 pm

    Hello MRO!

    you could always get a drobo clone like i have, though.
    i have 2 of these.
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003X26VV4/

    Does it run quiet? How much total storage have you installed?

    yeah it has a fan but it's quiet.
    i have 4tb drives in both of them.
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  • From Cougar428@VERT to OGG on Tue Jan 3 08:49:00 2023
    Is this bad news for my hdd?

    Hi there OGG, I would definately pick up a replacement drive and if you
    can, clone it before it's done. Just to be on the safe side...

    I have been contemplating upgrading to SSD and at least 500GB
    to 1TB.

    I don't think XP will benefit much from a SSD, XP doesn't really take
    advantage of the faster drive technology (IMO). I tried puttinig one
    into my XP system, but swapped it out for a 7200rpm drive instead.

    Cougar
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Cougar428 on Tue Jan 3 11:45:19 2023
    Re: bad news for hdd?
    By: Cougar428 to OGG on Tue Jan 03 2023 08:49 am


    I don't think XP will benefit much from a SSD, XP doesn't really take advantage of the faster drive technology (IMO). I tried puttinig one
    into my XP system, but swapped it out for a 7200rpm drive instead.

    the ssd is just plain faster. there's no TRIM support, so it might slightly impact it.

    he could just run win7
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  • From Ogg@VERT/CAPCITY2 to MRO on Tue Jan 3 23:24:00 2023
    Hello MRO!

    ** On Tuesday 03.01.23 - 11:45, MRO wrote to Cougar428:

    I don't think XP will benefit much from a SSD, XP doesn't really take
    advantage of the faster drive technology (IMO). I tried puttinig one
    into my XP system, but swapped it out for a 7200rpm drive instead.

    the ssd is just plain faster. there's no TRIM support, so it might slightly impact it.

    Several comparison videos show significant difference in boot
    time for instance. That's a plus. And the quieter operation
    another. And.. overall, there ought to be noticeable speed
    difference running programs.


    he could just run win7

    And that's the plan if the HDD to SDD upgrade works. My
    current programs would be happy with Win7/32, no problem.



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  • From Ogg@VERT/CAPCITY2 to Cougar428 on Tue Jan 3 23:30:00 2023
    Hello Cougar428!

    ** On Tuesday 03.01.23 - 08:49, Cougar428 wrote to OGG:

    I don't think XP will benefit much from a SSD, XP doesn't really take advantage of the faster drive technology (IMO). I tried puttinig one
    into my XP system, but swapped it out for a 7200rpm drive instead.

    I've seen several comparison videos of even older Thinkpads
    equipped with SSDs, and the performance/response times are
    significantly faster. I was intrigued with T40's being fitted
    with SDDs successfully. The T40 is only PATA as well! But
    with either the right SATA/PATA adapter or just an SSD model
    with PATA, provided a nice upgrade just the same.






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  • From Cougar428@VERT to MRO on Wed Jan 4 09:03:00 2023
    I don't think XP will benefit much from a SSD, XP doesn't really take advantage of the faster drive technology (IMO). I tried puttinig one
    into my XP system, but swapped it out for a 7200rpm drive instead.

    the ssd is just plain faster. there's no TRIM support, so it might slightly MR>act it.

    he could just run win7

    You are correct, it's just that when I tried this with XP I only noted a slightly faster boot time. That was just my experience.

    Also about the Windows 7 comment, when I put the same SSD in a Win7
    machine, it was 'noticeably' (significantly) faster.

    Cougar
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  • From Cougar428@VERT to OGG on Wed Jan 4 09:08:00 2023
    I don't think XP will benefit much from a SSD, XP doesn't really take advantage of the faster drive technology (IMO). I tried puttinig one into my XP system, but swapped it out for a 7200rpm drive instead.

    I've seen several comparison videos of even older Thinkpads
    equipped with SSDs, and the performance/response times are
    significantly faster.

    You could be correct on that with your hardware. When I tried this it
    was on a Dell desktop that had a 7200rpm HDD and I noted a faster boot
    up time, but no other significant speed up. This was my experience, and
    at the time buying an SSD was pretty pricey. Just seemed like it would
    be put to better use on a Windows 7 machine.

    Not saying you should not do this, just noting my experience when I did
    it.

    Sounds like a nice machine though!

    Cougar
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Cougar428 on Wed Jan 4 08:39:46 2023
    Re: bad news for hdd?
    By: Cougar428 to MRO on Wed Jan 04 2023 09:03 am


    he could just run win7

    You are correct, it's just that when I tried this with XP I only noted a slightly faster boot time. That was just my experience.

    Also about the Windows 7 comment, when I put the same SSD in a Win7
    machine, it was 'noticeably' (significantly) faster.

    Cougar

    yeah but ssd is just loads faster and better. it's an improvement
    no matter what.

    i've been there.
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Cougar428 on Wed Jan 4 08:42:05 2023
    Re: bad news for hdd?
    By: Cougar428 to OGG on Wed Jan 04 2023 09:08 am


    You could be correct on that with your hardware. When I tried this it
    was on a Dell desktop that had a 7200rpm HDD and I noted a faster boot
    up time, but no other significant speed up. This was my experience, and
    at the time buying an SSD was pretty pricey. Just seemed like it would
    be put to better use on a Windows 7 machine.


    well dells are engineered to be what they were engineered to be.
    so you might have some performance bottleneck and not get the boost you would expect with adding more memory or a faster harddrive.

    i've been there too!

    i used dells for my bbses and for my media servers.
    there's one on my tv now.
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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Ogg on Thu Jan 5 06:21:00 2023
    Ogg wrote to Cougar428 <=-

    I've seen several comparison videos of even older Thinkpads
    equipped with SSDs, and the performance/response times are
    significantly faster. I was intrigued with T40's being fitted
    with SDDs successfully. The T40 is only PATA as well! But
    with either the right SATA/PATA adapter or just an SSD model
    with PATA, provided a nice upgrade just the same.

    There are PATA SSDs available, I had a 128GB PATA SSD in my T42 and used
    it way beyond its normal useful life. The speed increase made it usable
    for most everything except full-screen video, which was a little choppy.



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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Cougar428 on Thu Jan 5 06:24:00 2023
    Cougar428 wrote to OGG <=-

    You could be correct on that with your hardware. When I tried this it
    was on a Dell desktop that had a 7200rpm HDD and I noted a faster boot
    up time, but no other significant speed up. This was my experience, and
    at the time buying an SSD was pretty pricey. Just seemed like it would
    be put to better use on a Windows 7 machine.

    Another option is a hybrid SATA drive - they're relatively fast SATA
    drives with 4-8GB of cache stuck to the side. Boot up time is
    SATA-speed, but once it boots up it starts filling the cache and app
    times decrease significantly once they're read from the cache. I used
    them a lot when upgrading systems and SSDs were expensive.



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  • From Ogg@VERT/CAPCITY2 to poindexter FORTRAN on Sun Jan 8 09:07:00 2023
    with SDDs successfully. The T40 is only PATA as well! But
    with either the right SATA/PATA adapter or just an SSD model
    with PATA, provided a nice upgrade just the same.

    There are PATA SSDs available, I had a 128GB PATA SSD in my T42 and used it way beyond its normal useful life. The speed increase made it usable for most everything except full-screen video, which was a little choppy.

    Full-screen video choppy with SSD on PATA, not surprising
    actually. That wouldn't have even occurred to me. I don't
    really need video performance on the T40p anyway.

    Although I'd love to revitalize my T40p with an SSD, it too
    needs a new fan, although I can bypass the no-boot lockup by
    pre-spinning the fan before I press turn on the pc, for now.
    The T40p has some tools and programs I'd love to revisit. I
    wouldn't mind having it hooked up to the local network and even
    control it by vnc for convenience.

    I was forced to change the CPU fan in my T60 a couple years
    ago. The pc refused to boot otherwise. It was a frustrating
    experience - and I was left with ONE SCREW that didn't seem to
    fit properly anywhere! - and I thought I was very careful
    where each screw came from.

    --- OpenXP 5.0.51
    * Origin: Ogg's Dovenet Point (723:320/1.9)
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