Do you recall the shooting in the schools? If teachers were carrying consealed weapons many lives including the teachers lives would be saved.
a student. more guns = more gun deaths, it's the simplest damn equation in the world. whoever thinks more guns = less gun violence, is severely delusional imho.
what i would like to see is a world where we are not all sitting ducks.
imagine how these people felt in these situations.
taking away guns wont make these problems go away. someone will use knives, explosives or poisons.
i'm totally for everyone having a gun.
Re: Teachers and Guns
By: Richard Claunch to All on Wed Apr 30 2014 07:52 am
Do you recall the shooting in the schools? If teachers were carrying consealed weapons many lives including the teachers lives would be saved.
ummm... totally wrong answer. these kids aren't even allowed to buy guns, they get them from adults who have too many to keep track of and bring them to school. you want to take one step out of the process and have the teachers bring the guns there for the kids.
plus, you're opening up a huge can of worms the first time a teacher shoots a student. more guns = more gun deaths, it's the simplest damn equation in the world. whoever thinks more guns = less gun violence, is severely delusional imho.
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what i would like to see is a world where we are not all sitting
ducks.
That sounds like a little bit of paranoia that's a warning sign someone might not be fit to own a gun.
I might be a little hypocritical, but don't
make enemies out of gun owners. If you and everyone believes that we live in a world where someone will snap and prepare 'defensive' arsenals in
imagine how these people felt in these situations.
Again, not really appealing to my logical side. Imagine how any random
duck plucked from history felt at the moment it died. Dying is sad. You can think about all the chickens that died for your nuggets, or you can
Now let's go back to tomatos and birds and sitting around, and let's go ahead and strap some guns, bombs, poison, knives, and STD's on one set of birds, anyhow, set them loose, some mishaps are bound to happen. If they
Re: Re: Teachers and Guns
By: Cellguy to LaRRy LaGoMoRpH on Fri May 02 2014 01:34 pm
I have applied for a concealled carry permit here in California. There is
at least a 1 year wait for the processing. But wait I will. After I do get the carry permit, and find someone in trouble I will be able to help. Guns are not the problem... I fear when it happens, I will not have the tool to help someone in need.
Who out there would carry a concealled firearm?
Richard Claunch SeldomBBS website SeldomBBS.Com telnet seldom.synchro.net
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I have applied for a concealled carry permit here in California. There
is at least a 1 year wait for the processing. But wait I will. After I
do get the carry permit, and find someone in trouble I will be able to
help. Guns are not the problem... I fear when it happens, I will not
have the tool to help someone in need.
LaRRy LaGoMoRpH wrote to Richard Claunch <=-
I have applied for a concealled carry permit here in California. There
is at least a 1 year wait for the processing. But wait I will. After I
do get the carry permit, and find someone in trouble I will be able to
help. Guns are not the problem... I fear when it happens, I will not
have the tool to help someone in need.
Here's how I picture it going down...
Mro sees someone going through his trash looking for food, shoots him.
RC sees Mro holding gun standing over dead body, decides to shoot him rather than call the police.
Cellguy shoots RC, because RC just shot someone.
Larry Lagomorph calls police.
Police arrive, Cellguy keeps waving his gun mumbling about
conspiracies, police shoot Cellguy.
Larry lagomorph heraled as a hero and paid money buy gun companies to
go on fox news and change the dialog from gun safety to the story of a strange love triangle gone wrong.
So what keeps a criminal from getting a gun if he truly wants one? NOTHING So in your genius equation.. how are you going to keep guns out of hands of they people that don't need them? Think you can control a black market? You can't
Think that just stopping guns will end it all... Sorry, Wrong again
Gun control hurts law abiding citizens.
Yes, kids can get the guns from their parents but it up to the parents
to keep them locked up in out of reach. Responsible gun ownership is
key.
I carry a gunnearly every where I go, Openly. If more people carried firearms, gun deaths from idiots would go down. The reason schools and movie theaters are easy targets is they know nobody is going to stop
them (SHOOT BACK!) Carrying SAVES lives!
Re: Re: Teachers and Guns
By: Cellguy to LaRRy LaGoMoRpH on Fri May 02 2014 01:34 pm
I have applied for a concealled carry permit here in California. There is
at least a 1 year wait for the processing. But wait I will. After I do get the carry permit, and find someone in trouble I will be able to help. Guns
Here's how I picture it going down...
Mro sees someone going through his trash looking for food, shoots him.
You should really become a writer for "As the Stomach Turns"... that was really funny.... but as they say, truth is stranger than fiction. :)
Re: Teachers and Guns
By: Richard Claunch to All on Wed Apr 30 2014 07:52 am
Do you recall the shooting in the schools? If teachers were carrying consealed weapons many lives including the teachers lives would be save
ummm... totally wrong answer. these kids aren't even allowed to buy guns, t get them from adults who have too many to keep track of and bring them to school. you want to take one step out of the process and have the teachers bring the guns there for the kids.
plus, you're opening up a huge can of worms the first time a teacher shoots student. more guns = more gun deaths, it's the simplest damn equation in th world. whoever thinks more guns = less gun violence, is severely delusional imho.
Do you recall the shooting in the schools? If teachers were carrying consealed weapons many lives including the teachers lives would be saved. I believe personal crime would be much lower.
what i would like to see is a world where we are not all sitting ducks.
That sounds like a little bit of paranoia that's a warning sign someone might
not be fit to own a gun. I might be a little hypocritical, but don't make enemies out of gun owners. If you and everyone believes that we live in a world where someone will snap and prepare 'defensive' arsenals in occurence with that fact, the odds of these 'immiment duck on duck on massacres'.
imagine how these people felt in these situations.
Again, not really appealing to my logical side. Imagine how any random duck plucked from history felt at the moment it died. Dying is sad. You can think
about all the chickens that died for your nuggets, or you can just do what any
and all animals will do which is eat rather than go hungry for principle.
taking away guns wont make these problems go away. someone will use knives, explosives or poisons.
Let's just say we agree on this, tomato = tomato. And I'm not in favor of just
taking guns away, I'm just saying the paranoid lunatic afraid of goth kids on
lithium doesn't do it for me. If you live in the Alaskan wilderness, you should be wary of wandering grizzly bear and strange punki-sh kids in your yard.
Now let's go back to tomatos and birds and sitting around, and let's go ahead
and strap some guns, bombs, poison, knives, and STD's on one set of birds, anyhow, set them loose, some mishaps are bound to happen. If they get in the
air, they might do well to go against their instincts and abandon the flock just to avoid collateral damage. If they learn to control their weapon, as an
informed user, they must have seen, felt and known its effects, and saw its utility to survive.
Anyhow, I am not a great weaver of elaborate portraits of birds with bombs, knives and poison on their backs, but essentially that is what I feel from the
fear conveyed in the duck analogy. And you only would need a gun against a bird with another gun. It's multi-dimensional rock paper scissors, and by that
there are both subjective and objective pyrric victories. By that I mean, that
in the actor of violence or of anything is not the judge of whether their actions were right. That is a basic fact, and I'm talking about the legal system, not some nebulous moral code from the sky.
From an economic perspective, if you're for everyone having a gun, you either:
a) want the government to give one to everyone and are a socialist
b) are selling guns
c) haven't thought it through
I'm not ruling out b or a, but if it's neither of those, then let me break it
down for you. People who think they need guns will invest money in them. People who don't actually need guns buy guns, they don't spend enough on other
things they need like food, shelter, medicine, and eventually they find themselves in a resource crunch. But lo and behold, they have a gun, which can
magically make some problems disappear. Anyhow, to sum that point up, by creating a culture of irresponsible gun consumerism, your creating a recipe for
crime, which would make sense if you b) are selling guns.
Anyhow, if you are a) a socialist and want everone to have guns, let me offer
you like 33% congratulations on being on somewhat the right track. Otherwise,
ducks are animals and people are too, and mostly they're concerned about eating
things other than each other. Occasionally, a duck might go rogue and start attacking other ducks, but it's not problematic until he attacks a duck with poison in his fannypack or steals the assault rifle from the sleepy goose who
everyone thought it was okay to give an assault rifle to because he's stupid
good natured and bigger than the ducks. Anyhow, just drop a tazer in the pond
when dealing with rogue waterfowl is the point.
I'm not trying to say guns are bad point blank, but saying that everyone should
have them and that schools should be stocked with them like pencils for safety
and therefore we need more more more because it's not the guns that cause safety issues, it's the pencils, if we took away the guns, kids would be killing each other left and right with pencils, is a bad argument... it doesn't make me think that person is mature enough to have the power over life
and death in their pocket.
If you are threatened, most people can call the police. If you are a criminal,
then who cares if it's legal to own a gun, be a criminal. If I thought person
A was going to shoot me, I would call the police. Then I would hire someone to
stab him with a pencil in jail, after I had time to think it over. If you are
afraid of the police and other people too, you might be paranoid, and people might be more afraid of you than you are of them. When you have a gun, you've
already raised the intensity level of a situation.
The whole people scare me and i'm terrified/excited by death therefore i need a
gun argument doesn't work for me. There aren't that many that do, but I do make exceptions for zombies and man-bear-pig and such. Hell, I even accept "I
like to shoot cans and blow stuff up" on some occasions.
It's kinda like Star Wars, with the Dark Side of the Force, "there is much fear
in you" etc etc to paraphrase. The Force is like a loaded Gun in your hands.
We have nothing to fear but fear itself. If you're happy and you know it clap
your hands. Happiness is a warm gun.
I'll just respond to you Khelair, cause I like you, and I really don't mean to
pick a fight on all gun ownership, but my general point is to Teachers and Guns.
I'll agree with you that atrocities have been happening all over the place for
a long time. I think there are a lot of kneejerk reactions, and some of them
are insane, and suggesting that teachers should be required to carry guns with
the idea that it will prevent some sort of disaster is not logical.
By trying to put me in an emotional state over these things, it is an attempt
to deflect from the logical components of the argument. The fact is you can fixate over the death of any creature and construe it as painful. That is the
sort of argument intended for a jury and not a judge however. It is a statement intended to stir something more primitive than an informed reaction.
Anyhow, back to the argument with schools and guns, and rather than use birds
as an analogy, I'll provide a few examples as to why kids shouldn't be surrounded by guns. Kids are already obsessed with guns, they play with them
from a very early age. Kids, will cause trouble with anything: toilet paper,
eggs, balloons, etc. If you didn't cause trouble when you were a kid, then you
knew someone who did. Kids are immature. I remember electrocuting the teacher using the van de graph generator. I remember doing lots of stuff, and
I wasn't even that bad. But kids cause trouble, and if you put guns in their
reach, one of them will get to it and cause trouble. If you give a kid matches, he is going to start a fire.
Then contrast that with your typical teacher, who in my experience is typically
laid back, liberal and is just trying to teach kids in the classroom and walk
to hallways. I know personally if I were in that position and of that demeanor, I would feel like a gun made me and the environment less safe. The
minute someone loses control of a gun in that circumstance is when it will become evident that the solution was more trouble than the problem.
I see this attitude with gun owners in America, and it is an attitude of 'the
cat's out of the bag'. Anyhow, imagine if the world took that approach to Nuclear weapons. Anyhow, I would argue that the cat is not completely out of
the bag yet. We have not reached a point where an increase in supply to the gun pool will result in a nil increase in the marginal death rate.
Were a teacher to have experience in security, and be held to a higher standard
of accountability, than I have no objection for local schools to assess the needs of their constituents and make reasonable hiring practices in alignment
with the educational and safety goals of the school. I am not opposed to those
teachers even receiving a premium on their services, should the local zeitgeist
compel the school to incentivize the position monetarily. I might even support
such a measure on a local level were such a case made to compel me that there
was a need, and the solution was the most effective proposal to resolve the situation. Were I to have my vote, I probably wouldn't pay a premium for such
a teacher, but I might not care enough to vote, but you never know, it just depends on the situation.
The only way that putting guns into teachers hands works is at a local level and with gun control. If you put guns in schools, you must have them in the hands of responsible people who are held to a higher standard of conduct than
just Joe Blow Teacher.
When I see a person carrying a gun for defense when it isn't appropriate, I see
an insecure person who is compensating by carrying the right to be judge, jury
and executioner in their pocket. And it doesn't make me feel safe seeing people who are basically scaredy cats thinking they are vigilantes.
If you want to say imagine what so and so person felt like when they were killed by mr. killer, sometimes I try to think what mr. killer was thinking and
felt. and i'm just guessing, that a fair amount of them thought they were being righteous vigilantes at the time.
If you want to pull on subjective heartstrings to make an argument as far as getting a weapon goes, then I have a right to question the objectivity of a person when it comes time to make a rational decision in a split second.
Honestly, I just think trying to put guns in the hands in the bunch of teachers
is just throwing gas on the fire and doesn't make gun ownership look any more
rational to me. Terrible things have happened for a long time, but the scale
and response have increased with an increased supply of technology of two kinds, one to dissemeniate information and the other ammunition. Since I only
have direct access to the former, and one could say that it's causual connection to deadly results is far less indirect than the latter.
Anyhow, I think when you try to boil things down to good and evil, you're really getting into subjective paradigms and you're not being logical. There
are two things at work, life and death. Good and evil are abstractions and tools to manipulate the simple man.
Shall we change good and evil to altruistic/selfless/logical
vs. materialistic/reactive/emotional/selfish?
shouldn't be raised to want guns, people should be trained to want guns.
Now there's a thought! Have the waiting time be based upon the caliber of the bullet and the potential for killing someone. Eg.I have applied for a concealled carry permit here in California. There at least a 1 year wait for the processing. But wait I will. After I dwow that's a long time.
Now there's a thought! Have the waiting time be based upon the caliber of the bullet and the potential for killing someone. Eg.I have applied for a concealled carry permit here in California. There at least a 1 year wait for the processing. But wait I will. After I dwow that's a long time.
Here's how I picture it going down...
Mro sees someone going through his trash looking for food, shoots him.
RC sees Mro holding gun standing over dead body, decides to shoot him
rather than call the police.
Cellguy shoots RC, because RC just shot someone.
Larry Lagomorph calls police.
Police arrive, Cellguy keeps waving his gun mumbling about conspiracies, police shoot Cellguy.
Larry lagomorph heraled as a hero and paid money buy gun companies to go on fox news and change the dialog from gun safety to the story of a strange love triangle gone wrong.
---
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This is the same as Air Marshals, Heaven help us when an Air marshal shoots a innocent passenger, or Brings downa plane becuase of his/her actions. The Malaysia missing plane could have been caused by theHmmm, Arm the Air Marshal with like 30 Tazer's. Just like the police use. Then, if the Air Marshal so much as thinks someone's got a gun, Taze him,
actions of a Air Marshal. (It's aPossibility)!
Here's how I picture it going down...
Mro sees someone going through his trash looking for food, shoots him.
RC sees Mro holding gun standing over dead body, decides to shoot him rather than call the police.
Cellguy shoots RC, because RC just shot someone.
Larry Lagomorph calls police.
Police arrive, Cellguy keeps waving his gun mumbling about conspiracies, police shoot Cellguy.
Larry lagomorph heraled as a hero and paid money buy gun companies to go on fox news and change the dialog from gun safety to the story of a strange love triangle gone wrong.
You step up and see all the dead bodies, and the cop handcuffing someoneMro sees someone going through his trash looking for food, shoots hi RCsees Mro holding gun standing over dead body, decides to shoot him rather than call the police.Where do I fit into this? :)
strange love triangle gone wrong.
Knight
What ever happened to settling matters the old fashioned way with your fists? Now all of a sudden everyone wants to bring guns to "be a bigger man?" Pfft.
Where do I fit into this? :)You step up and see all the dead bodies, and the cop handcuffing
someone
and you assume that the SHTF, so you first contact your buddies to start
forming a mob. Then you see a tire iron on the ground, as you grab it
and
beat the heck out of the cop, drag his body to the ditch and tie him up.
You cut the cuffs off the guy and tell him you saw everything, he was
improperly arrested by "the man", and he should come with you, where
your
men are setting up a camp as you speak! He's a little fuzzy on
understanding you right now, and thinks your inviting him to a video
game party, so he says "Sounds like fun!" I'm on my radio, telling
folks I'm fixing to re-locate, because things are starting to creep me
out. But before I go, I figure I don't need these chicken bones in my
truck, so I toss them out on top of the cop. Later, someone comes by
and sees the cop laying in the ditch with chicken bones on top of him,
and assumes he must have stuffed himself so much that he passed out. So
no one bothers to help him up. Some dogs come by and see the bones, grab
a few then pee on him.
Sound reasonable?
what i would like to see is a world where we are not all sitting
ducks.
That sounds like a little bit of paranoia that's a warning sign someone might not be fit to own a gun. I might be a little hypocritical, but
Mro sees someone going through his trash looking for food, shoots him.
i dont have food in my trash. i have trash.
when someone digs through my trash i yell at them to go away.
What ever happened to settling matters the old fashioned way with your fists Now all of a sudden everyone wants to bring guns to "be a bigger man?" Pfft.
Regards,
Nick
Re: Re: Teachers and Guns
By: Mro to LaRRy LaGoMoRpH on Sat May 03 2014 06:33 pm
Mro sees someone going through his trash looking for food, shoots him.
i dont have food in my trash. i have trash.
when someone digs through my trash i yell at them to go away.
Haha, you're funny. "Hey get out of my trash!"
Where do I fit into this? :)
You step up and see all the dead bodies, and the cop handcuffing someone
and you assume that the SHTF, so you first contact your buddies to start
forming a mob. Then you see a tire iron on the ground, as you grab it and
beat the heck out of the cop, drag his body to the ditch and tie him up.
You cut the cuffs off the guy and tell him you saw everything, he was
improperly arrested by "the man", and he should come with you, where your
men are setting up a camp as you speak! He's a little fuzzy on understanding you right now, and thinks your inviting him to a video game party, so he says "Sounds like fun!" I'm on my radio, telling folks I'm fixing to re-locate, because things are starting to creep me out. But before
I go, I figure I don't need these chicken bones in my truck, so I toss them out on top of the cop. Later, someone comes by and sees the cop laying in the ditch with chicken bones on top of him, and assumes he must have stuffed himself so much that he passed out. So no one bothers to help him up. Some dogs come by and see the bones, grab a few then pee on him.
a student. more guns = more gun deaths, it's the simplest damn equation in the world. whoever thinks more guns = less gun violence, is severely delusional imho.
what i would like to see is a world where we are not all sitting ducks.
imagine how these people felt in these situations.
taking away guns wont make these problems go away. someone will use knives, explosives or poisons.
i'm totally for everyone having a gun.
when someone digs through my trash i yell at them to go away.
Haha, you're funny. "Hey get out of my trash!"
the guy that does it is looking for cans or something and he does it late at night and makes a LOT of noise.
You do realize if he cuts himself looking for cans, he'll sue you. I had one freaky time working in Sulphur, LA at a gas station. First off, therethe guy that does it is looking for cans or something and he does it at night and makes a LOT of noise.Oh wow, it's real! I thought you were just pulling his leg, or speaking hypothetically, to keep the story going.
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